Investigations

Grover Norquist said America is not a democratic society

Americans for Tax Reform hosted the newly published full interview after viewers asked for the uncut tape.

Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, said the United States is not a democratic society during a 45-minute interview More Perfect Union published on Oct. 21, 2026. The channel had condensed an earlier conversation with Norquist into a produced piece on taxing the ultra-wealthy and released the full tape after viewers asked for it.

"We're not a democratic society," Norquist said. "We're a free society. We're a republic." The host had suggested that in a democratic society voters decide tax questions together. Norquist said the Constitution was written so majorities could not steal from minorities and that he favors liberty over government taking more revenue.

Americans for Tax Reform says it was founded in 1985 at President Ronald Reagan's request. Its Taxpayer Protection Pledge commits officeholders to oppose income tax increases. The group says nearly 1,400 elected officials have signed.

Norquist said he opposes raising taxes in any form and is not troubled when profitable companies report effective corporate rates near zero or when billionaires pay far lower rates than nurses and truck drivers. He argued that wage earners already pay income tax on labor and should not face a higher second levy when they invest the remainder.

When the host posed a hypothetical $1 billion gain from early cryptocurrency holdings and asked how to minimize what the government collects, Norquist said he does not give personal tax advice. He pointed to state tax competition instead, predicting that about 20 states may charge no income tax within 15 years as others phase rates toward zero.

Norquist called levies at every level trickle-down taxation. Politicians promise to tax only the rich, he said, and the burden eventually reaches everyone. He cited the Spanish-American War-era tax on long-distance phone bills that began as a levy on a luxury and still appeared on landline bills more than a century later.

He said Illinois Democrats locked a flat income tax into the state constitution so lawmakers cannot adopt graduated rates. Massachusetts voters passed a millionaires surtax on a sixth ballot attempt, he said, while state officials removed a citizen initiative to cut the flat rate because it would have passed.

The host pressed Norquist on unsold stock passed between generations and whether dynastic wealth concerned him. Norquist said parents should be free to leave money to their children and cited Forbes data that about one-third of the Forbes 400 inherited their fortunes.

Near the close, the host thanked Norquist for condemning Islamophobia in the conservative movement around 2011 and 2012. Norquist recalled Muslim prayers at the 2000 Republican convention and George W. Bush opposing secret-evidence rules during that year's presidential debates.

Source video: I Talked To The Man Who Broke America's Tax Code